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This episode is sponsored by The Bridge to Recovery,

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a nonprofit program on 115 acres near Bowling Green,

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Kentucky,

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a tranquil place where they've been changing lives for over 40 years.

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Their people improve their quality of life by acknowledging past emotional wounds

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and healing from all forms of trauma.

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The CEO, Paul Hamlin, has been a friend of mine for 20 years.

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Call him directly at 858-945-7848.

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That's 858-945-7848.

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Or you can learn more about the Bridge to Recovery by clicking the link in the show

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notes or visiting thebridgetorecovery.com.

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Thank you for listening to The Path to Authenticity.

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My name is Tom Gentry.

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I think of this show as the opposite of small talk.

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You'll hear real conversations with real people who know who they are.

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We talk about what makes them who they are,

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how they became who they are,

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and how we might become truer expressions of who we are.

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I'm Jamie Vance, and this is The Path to Authenticity.

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I'm Tom Gentry.

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Thanks for listening to The Path to Authenticity.

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This episode features a conversation with a friend and colleague named Jamie Vance.

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Jamie lives in Nashville, Tennessee.

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And he's just someone who I respect.

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professionally, personally, you name it.

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He's one of the best people you'll ever meet.

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So we get to hear about what he's doing with the company he's built,

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the Vance group and how we got there.

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And you'll, you'll definitely get a sense of what a great guy he is from this conversation.

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So I hope you enjoy it.

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Jamie Vance.

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Jamie, how's it going?

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Good, man.

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It's good.

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Just, you know, nice weather outside.

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Got a little trail run in today.

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You know, I think it's in the 70s here.

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Probably not as warm as it is down there, but it's nice.

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And, you know, just one day at a time, man.

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Well, this is a nice little surprise, having an opportunity to have you on the podcast.

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And I really didn't plan it or expect it and just kind of thought of it and reached

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out to you over the weekend.

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And it came together quick.

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Here we are.

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So thank you.

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Yeah, I'll try not to let you down.

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You're not going to.

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Come on.

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What are you talking about?

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No, you never have before.

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I don't expect you to do it now.

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So why don't you just take a minute to tell the folks listening what it is you do

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and what a typical day in the life for Jamie Vance looks like?

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Man, a typical day in the life.

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And what do I do?

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You know, there's no...

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other thing to call what I do than a consultant.

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But, you know, consultant sounds way too advisory for what I actually do every day.

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And so various types of companies and organizations,

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I work with them on,

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you know,

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my background is marketing and behavioral health.

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But I've ended up,

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you know,

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working with a lot of different types of companies,

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organizations,

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individuals,

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And basically,

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in marketing or personal performance or anything,

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you know,

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there are blocks to success.

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You know,

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the same as in,

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you know,

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there are certain blocks to personal health and other things.

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There are blocks to realizing that success.

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And so what I do is I come in and work with them,

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work with their team on helping them to realize that.

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And

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It's a lot more,

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you know,

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kind of on the ground with them than,

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you know,

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than it is,

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you know,

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some advisory type of position.

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And it looks different in a lot of different scenarios.

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I think my sweet spot in the marketing realm is to take, you know, 10 of your, you know,

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outreach representative,

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sales representative,

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whatever the vernacular is,

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and work with them individually to improve performance.

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That's helped me a lot in my life, and so that's one of the things I really like to do.

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But I do everything from working out business plans for large companies,

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consulting other leaders on how to best lead their teams,

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doing workshops on organizational health, which is something that's really important to me.

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And then, you know, startups of creating the total marketing engine and getting that to work.

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That's what I do.

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But a day in the life looks like,

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you know,

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if it's not right now,

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I've been sleeping a little later right now for some reason until about 530,

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but

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Usually I'll get up at 4.30 and get my day going and do some meditation and,

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you know,

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make some breakfast or something like that and get after it.

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You know, I work on all the coasts, and so my days are pretty full.

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And I go train jujitsu at about 11 o'clock and then come back.

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And, you know, I always told somebody once that they were, you know, the best man.

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group and they said what's your dream job and i said i don't know exactly but if i

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could show up and board shorts and flip-flop uh that would be it so some days i get

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to do that and so that's pretty cool uh but that's what a day in the life looks

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like when it's not you know we're not under a pandemic lockdown i i tend to travel

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quite a bit and so i'll go on site and work with teams uh on the ground a lot uh

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And then I come home and I play with my kids every day and I'm pretty normal.

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Well, I would consider you above normal or at least above average in my book.

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And modest is another way I would describe you.

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So...

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What's your story?

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How'd you get here to this place in life where this is what you're doing?

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Yeah, it's interesting, man.

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I mean,

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specifically,

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I'll answer that in a second,

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you know,

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specifically how the Vance Group formed is its own story.

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How I got here was that, you know, I grew up, my parents,

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did healthcare.

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Um,

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I don't know if that had any influence or not,

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uh,

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on me working in that realm,

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but,

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you know,

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I started,

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um,

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you know,

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I didn't graduate from high school.

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I didn't go to college.

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I did go to college, but I didn't graduate from college.

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Uh,

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but,

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um,

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most of my work ethic and anything that I've kind of learned,

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I learned through,

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um,

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you know, agriculture and like being out among the world and working with people.

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And, you know, one of the things that, you know, I polished that later on in life.

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I think that's important.

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But,

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you know,

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the raw piece of it was,

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you know,

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being out among the world and,

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you know,

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the average person in learning how to get along with other people.

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I think that's the number one skill that

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you can be as smart as you want to,

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but if you can't work with somebody,

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you're not going to get anything done.

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So, you know, I kind of learned that and learned to kind of hustle a little bit.

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And so those are my two saving graces, I think.

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And then I got into behavioral health through my own personal recovery.

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I was sober and wanted to work with addicts.

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And so I worked on an adolescent addiction unit and then,

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you know,

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tried,

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was going to do kind of the therapy route,

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but

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If you don't know me,

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if you do know me,

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rather,

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you would know that sitting in a room all day talking to people,

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I'm going to kind of phase out and,

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you know,

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pretty quick.

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So I need to be up and moving and accomplishing a lot.

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It's important for me.

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I got what they call the ADD.

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So I like to do a lot of things.

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And so the role in business development opened up and I had no idea why.

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really what I was getting into, but I got into it.

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And for me, it's just kind of a failure is not an option kind of person.

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If I've got, you know, two legs and two hands, then I've got a chance.

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And so I just kind of made that work at first and then made that work for a while

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and learned,

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you know,

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a long time ago that there's nothing wrong with asking for help and kind of

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mirroring other people.

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And so I've always had mentors and coaches.

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And then I went on to work for a company and that was kind of a lucky thing because

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that company had a really invested a lot into their employees.

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And so I was able to receive a lot of coaching to kind of smooth off some of my

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rough edges and just learn some things.

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And so I was a,

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rep there for a number of years and then became a vice president,

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was recruited to be a vice president and was having to fly out west a lot and

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didn't hate it but didn't love it either and learned a lot about myself and learned

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that I work really well if I'm the person you need and

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then you let me do what I do.

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And I've learned to also do that with other people.

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But if I'm the person you need, but you won't let me do what I do, that's a no start.

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So I was fortunate enough to work for a guy named Kevin Lee.

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And he taught me a whole lot.

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And he was the CEO of a company and hired me as his chief marketing officer.

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Both of us knew that

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I didn't have the on-paper qualifications,

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and there were probably other people that he could have got,

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but we grew that company a whole lot,

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and I learned a lot along the way.

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Just about,

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you know,

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from him,

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he was a really kind of humble guy and really nice to all his employees,

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and I just really loved how he just was who he was,

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you know,

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and he never changed,

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and success didn't change him,

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and nothing changed him.

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He had several, you know, successful ventures, and

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He was just cool.

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But he was also very perceptive and kind of operated on a few set principles.

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And any successful person I've ever met does that.

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So I learned a lot in that experience.

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And then,

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you know,

(00:12:06.989):
after a while,

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I think that you find,

(00:12:11.652):
for me anyway,

(00:12:12.653):
people like me find that,

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you know,

(00:12:15.434):
there's a confinement and that you have to continue to grow.

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And my next

(00:12:20.660):
stage uh which is how i formed the dance group a few years ago um i like doing

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things that that are really hard and i have no idea what i'm doing i think it's

(00:12:31.126):
always good to be engaged in something like that and so i started brazilian jujitsu

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a couple years ago um and you know you're a white belt when you start right and you

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just basically uh kindly you know

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get beat up for, you know, a couple of years because you're not good at it.

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So it's such a,

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you know,

(00:12:56.206):
technique based thing that,

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you know,

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what happens is,

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you know,

(00:13:00.547):
40 year old athletes like me go in there and think they still got it and all the

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brute brawn and strength that you have is not going to do anything.

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And so my first experience was that,

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you know,

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I just got mauled by like a hundred thousand woman and I was like,

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okay.

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Uh, and so, you know, I, I,

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also met a lot of really cool people.

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And one of those guys named Andre Kutrich,

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and he's a black belt out of Studio 540 in San Diego,

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which is a really neat thing.

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But also he is,

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you know,

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an executive in behavioral health and healthcare,

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you know,

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and has a good tenure in that.

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And I was in,

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you know,

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there and just,

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you know,

(00:13:45.163):
for the last several years,

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you know,

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I've been pushing people

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rocks up hills with companies and that's what i'm good at doing and you know but

(00:13:54.262):
after a period of time our industry kind of took a shift and he was like you know

(00:13:58.865):
we were doing a private lesson and i think he could tell that i was just kind of

(00:14:01.887):
wearing it and we were just sitting there on the mat you know kind of rolling and

(00:14:05.909):
doing some stuff he's like man what's going on and i kind of told him he was like

(00:14:10.151):
here's what i want you to do

(00:14:11.843):
and I love that I have people in my life like this,

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you know,

(00:14:14.425):
he's like,

(00:14:14.705):
here's what I want you to do.

(00:14:15.645):
You didn't, you know, dance around or anything.

(00:14:18.027):
He was just like direct to it.

(00:14:20.388):
Um, I want you to start a company and I want you to work for yourself.

(00:14:24.150):
And, and what I think you need to do is call it the Vance Group and,

(00:14:28.720):
yeah, you're one person, but, you know, collectively, you know, I've seen you do it a lot.

(00:14:33.642):
If there's a project that needs to happen in this space,

(00:14:36.584):
you can bring the right people to do it together and you won't do a bad job because

(00:14:41.146):
you won't let somebody work on the project that's not good.

(00:14:44.527):
And so whatever it is, you can do.

(00:14:46.968):
And I was like, yeah, whatever.

(00:14:48.009):
He's like, no, really, I want you to do this and you need to start it.

(00:14:50.350):
I was like, I love it.

(00:14:51.610):
And so I kind of dipped my toe in the water.

(00:14:55.312):
And then I got a call that

(00:14:57.867):
the position I had that I didn't have anymore,

(00:15:01.109):
and I've never lost a position in my life,

(00:15:04.431):
ever,

(00:15:05.372):
except,

(00:15:05.712):
you know,

(00:15:06.192):
a long time ago,

(00:15:07.073):
but not in any recent history,

(00:15:09.955):
and that just wasn't a part of my story,

(00:15:11.896):
and I'm a big,

(00:15:14.118):
like,

(00:15:14.298):
David Goggins fan,

(00:15:15.518):
and just,

(00:15:16.199):
you know,

(00:15:17.560):
I don't kind of follow anybody.

(00:15:19.241):
I kind of follow my own beliefs and ideas, but

(00:15:23.140):
You know, I am like a no rear view mirror kind of a guy.

(00:15:26.942):
And so, you know, I came home and told my wife, like, yeah, I lost my job.

(00:15:31.964):
She, you know, devastated.

(00:15:33.705):
You know, we've got four kids and new house and, you know, it wasn't a good situation.

(00:15:38.888):
And she's like, so what are you going to do?

(00:15:42.049):
And I said,

(00:15:42.589):
well,

(00:15:43.870):
you know,

(00:15:44.170):
for the past 10,

(00:15:47.372):
15 years,

(00:15:47.992):
I've been,

(00:15:48.552):
you know,

(00:15:48.893):
leading people towards,

(00:15:51.334):
you know,

(00:15:52.626):
exactly what to do right now you know so how do you go make it work um and you know

(00:16:00.631):
it was the first time that 100 i had to really practice what i preached and you

(00:16:05.815):
know i always tell people to work for me you got to hustle you got to do five

(00:16:10.238):
meetings a day and at least 20 phone calls you know i mean the number doesn't

(00:16:14.321):
matter but if you want something you you have to work for it it's just you should

(00:16:18.423):
what are you going to do

(00:16:19.582):
I said,

(00:16:19.762):
well,

(00:16:19.962):
I'm going to wake up tomorrow and I'm not going to go to sleep until,

(00:16:23.224):
you know,

(00:16:24.225):
I figure it out.

(00:16:25.406):
And so I formed the company in like one day.

(00:16:27.607):
I had no client.

(00:16:29.549):
I had one client,

(00:16:30.529):
but it was just a small thing because I dipped my toe in the water with it a little bit.

(00:16:35.413):
So I had one client and, you know, I just really got after it.

(00:16:42.137):
I called a few of my mentors because it kind of shook me in my pride and my ego.

(00:16:46.741):
that I'd lost a position.

(00:16:48.742):
How could they do that?

(00:16:49.662):
Don't they know how great I was for the organization?

(00:16:53.764):
In retrospect, ethically, I probably wouldn't have done that.

(00:16:59.486):
I've had to eliminate positions before.

(00:17:01.988):
I'm just the kind of guy that I'll make sure you land okay.

(00:17:06.630):
I think for me,

(00:17:07.930):
actually,

(00:17:08.310):
it was a good thing because I needed to be forced into what I'm doing right now or

(00:17:13.593):
I would have never done it.

(00:17:15.307):
the way that I'm doing it now.

(00:17:17.288):
And,

(00:17:17.628):
um,

(00:17:19.188):
you know,

(00:17:19.728):
it,

(00:17:20.008):
it,

(00:17:20.368):
I was sure that it was going to take,

(00:17:24.289):
you know,

(00:17:24.669):
six months to get kind of solvent with the company and everything where it needed

(00:17:28.631):
to be.

(00:17:29.091):
And,

(00:17:30.271):
um,

(00:17:31.291):
it took off very quickly and,

(00:17:33.012):
and I just,

(00:17:34.892):
it was invigorating for me because I just got to really hustle and grind again and

(00:17:40.414):
be smart with my time and,

(00:17:42.381):
and have fun.

(00:17:43.261):
And, and, and that's what I've been doing.

(00:17:45.502):
And, um, I really enjoy it.

(00:17:48.263):
And,

(00:17:48.944):
you know,

(00:17:49.284):
it's,

(00:17:49.644):
it's really good because,

(00:17:51.745):
you know,

(00:17:51.985):
I get to really see those tangible results.

(00:17:54.346):
It's a hundred percent,

(00:17:55.706):
you know,

(00:17:56.046):
results and performance oriented and I either perform or I don't.

(00:18:00.108):
And I like being in that position.

(00:18:02.069):
So, um, I think it's taken, you know, it's added a few years to my life.

(00:18:06.590):
I mean, I feel, you know, better, younger, and just, you know, I'm not carrying anything

(00:18:11.403):
weight that's not mine so that's it well and you know one of the things that i've

(00:18:19.988):
experienced at least to some degree in my career is and and i'm sure you can relate

(00:18:25.831):
to this that you know at some point as you progress um

(00:18:34.835):
I mean,

(00:18:35.215):
if you're like me,

(00:18:37.017):
and I think you're this way too,

(00:18:40.419):
you get to a point where you can't be as good as you are if you're working for

(00:18:49.226):
somebody else.

(00:18:50.547):
It just gets in your way.

(00:18:52.148):
Unless it's just the exactly right set of circumstances, you know?

(00:18:58.974):
Which is hard to find.

(00:19:01.215):
Yeah, I think it's hard to find

(00:19:03.717):
I think it's possible, if you know that concept, I think it's possible to create.

(00:19:11.739):
I've done a good job as a leader and I've done a really bad job.

(00:19:15.579):
So,

(00:19:16.120):
you know,

(00:19:16.640):
I could talk for days about the bad things,

(00:19:18.720):
you know,

(00:19:19):
the things I've done that,

(00:19:21.181):
you know,

(00:19:21.601):
weren't good decisions.

(00:19:22.781):
But the one few times I can think of that I tried to make it that if you work for me,

(00:19:30.863):
it's almost like you don't.

(00:19:32.879):
And my only job is I think with leadership,

(00:19:37.941):
once somebody gets that opportunity,

(00:19:40.122):
they kind of don't know what it means.

(00:19:41.962):
And so they kind of just insert a bunch of stuff.

(00:19:45.743):
And, you know, I remove instead of add.

(00:19:49.885):
And so my only thing I did in leadership with a few people,

(00:19:53.866):
and it turned out really well,

(00:19:55.607):
was to just support them being successful.

(00:19:58.968):
Period.

(00:20:01.189):
Period.

(00:20:02.386):
Like,

(00:20:03.767):
I'm going to make you really successful at this thing because ultimately,

(00:20:06.968):
yes,

(00:20:07.268):
that would pay off for me.

(00:20:08.348):
And so I really got out of their way and I didn't,

(00:20:12.070):
you know,

(00:20:12.430):
have all the answers and it was more consultative and it worked really well.

(00:20:17.172):
Now, I haven't done that every time.

(00:20:19.193):
I'm sure there's people that could call you up right now and say,

(00:20:21.413):
well,

(00:20:21.513):
that's not what he did with me.

(00:20:23.034):
Yeah, I mean, it's true.

(00:20:24.635):
Yeah.

(00:20:26.764):
but a couple of times I have, and I learned a big lesson there.

(00:20:30.365):
So I think that it is possible to create that to some degree, certainly not typical.

(00:20:36.027):
And certainly for the most part, not what I've experienced.

(00:20:39.247):
I told you that one time,

(00:20:40.948):
I think,

(00:20:41.288):
you know,

(00:20:41.708):
with Kevin Lee,

(00:20:43.709):
I think that guy just knew how to make things work because,

(00:20:47.810):
you know,

(00:20:49.070):
he had been,

(00:20:49.650):
you know,

(00:20:50.151):
so many times in a position that he had to make that thing work.

(00:20:54.452):
So he just knew,

(00:20:55.956):
like hire good people get out of the way, you know?

(00:20:59.298):
Um,

(00:21:00.339):
but even then you've got to still deal with all the other people you work with and

(00:21:04.481):
all that kind of stuff.

(00:21:05.441):
And so there is, I think it is limiting.

(00:21:07.723):
I think that on my own, you know, it's just me.

(00:21:11.625):
So, you know, it does, I think it just causes me to perform better too.

(00:21:17.008):
Um, you know, I can tell you that especially early on and even today that, um,

(00:21:25.112):
I just had to really get after it because it was up to me.

(00:21:31.377):
I kind of rather it be that way.

(00:21:33.539):
People are uncomfortable with that.

(00:21:35.220):
I'm not.

(00:21:38.483):
Well, it's not that I'm not uncomfortable with it.

(00:21:40.425):
It's just that it's worth it to me.

(00:21:42.146):
So I'll go ahead and go through it.

(00:21:43.407):
I'll take the risk.

(00:21:46.930):
Well, and I've met a lot of people over the years in our industry who were

(00:21:55.126):
afraid to take the risk, you know, just afraid to venture out on their own.

(00:22:01.550):
Yeah.

(00:22:03.171):
And their own inner dialogue, they buy into that.

(00:22:06.073):
Well, I just can't make that work.

(00:22:07.874):
Even if it's a matter of being a therapist in private practice,

(00:22:11.896):
you know,

(00:22:12.276):
people convince themselves that,

(00:22:13.897):
well,

(00:22:14.158):
how am I going to get the business?

(00:22:15.759):
And they,

(00:22:17.820):
they get sucked into the illusion of security of working for somebody else or a big agency.

(00:22:24.464):
And,

(00:22:26.657):
One of the things that's really interesting to me about this time that we're going

(00:22:31.619):
through right now with this pandemic is that it's shining a light on the fact that

(00:22:40.903):
security is an illusion because it's just not real.

(00:22:47.807):
It's not.

(00:22:48.567):
I think that

(00:22:53.479):
you know,

(00:22:53.799):
you can certainly increase or decrease the odds,

(00:22:56.982):
you know,

(00:22:57.362):
on your own by what you do.

(00:22:58.763):
But I think that, you know, we're not guaranteed anything.

(00:23:02.186):
I'm not guaranteed another second, you know.

(00:23:06.710):
And that really changes.

(00:23:08.431):
And,

(00:23:09.192):
you know,

(00:23:11.193):
through some life circumstances that were,

(00:23:13.916):
you know,

(00:23:14.256):
kind of unfortunate,

(00:23:15.597):
I just live my life that way,

(00:23:19.040):
you know,

(00:23:19.320):
because I'm very aware of my own mortality.

(00:23:23.790):
Um,

(00:23:24.671):
and I'm also very aware of,

(00:23:27.353):
you know,

(00:23:28.594):
um,

(00:23:29.094):
how toxic,

(00:23:30.776):
um,

(00:23:32.237):
to way more people than me,

(00:23:35.179):
you know,

(00:23:36.200):
those limiting beliefs can be.

(00:23:37.741):
And so, um, you know, I'm not a perfect example of anything, but I think that, um,

(00:23:51.354):
it makes me really sad to think about,

(00:23:54.756):
and I've seen it,

(00:23:55.577):
you know,

(00:23:56.017):
so I don't want it for myself and I'm sure to some degree I still do it.

(00:23:59.139):
I'm not totally free of anything,

(00:24:01.380):
but I think that it just makes me sad to think about,

(00:24:05.202):
you know,

(00:24:06.183):
going through this life and not doing it the way,

(00:24:11.326):
you know,

(00:24:12.607):
not doing it to the extent that that fire inside you,

(00:24:16.349):
you know,

(00:24:16.709):
or just letting that fire die down.

(00:24:18.650):
I mean, God, uh,

(00:24:21.445):
there's nothing worse for me than to think about that,

(00:24:24.888):
you know,

(00:24:25.768):
well,

(00:24:26.028):
and that's with mediocrity.

(00:24:28.690):
Well,

(00:24:28.931):
and that,

(00:24:29.211):
that's really what this podcast is about is,

(00:24:32.393):
you know,

(00:24:32.793):
I mean that fire inside that you're talking about,

(00:24:35.635):
I mean,

(00:24:36.796):
can be,

(00:24:37.937):
you know,

(00:24:39.483):
synonymous with your own authenticity.

(00:24:43.848):
Like when we're in congruence with who we really are and what we're really supposed

(00:24:49.234):
to be doing,

(00:24:50.656):
then we do have that fire and it feeds everything that we do.

(00:24:54.761):
And, and we're better than,

(00:24:58.374):
at everything because of it, you know?

(00:25:02.357):
And for me,

(00:25:04.358):
what part of,

(00:25:05.739):
you know,

(00:25:06.059):
doing this podcast and what's been going on with me the last couple of years is at

(00:25:11.422):
some point I had to decide,

(00:25:15.144):
am I going to take another job in the interest of having a steady paycheck,

(00:25:20.768):
health insurance,

(00:25:22.629):
whatever it is?

(00:25:24.653):
You know,

(00:25:25.113):
but at the expense of doing what I really want to do,

(00:25:30.415):
you know,

(00:25:31.416):
and the last go around when,

(00:25:34.237):
you know,

(00:25:34.497):
I had this contract that lasted a couple of years and this job kind of ran its course.

(00:25:42.219):
it was okay, Tom, like what, you know, what are you going to do?

(00:25:45.660):
You're going to,

(00:25:46.600):
you're going to go,

(00:25:47.200):
uh,

(00:25:48.441):
try to,

(00:25:49.881):
you know,

(00:25:50.601):
find a box that you can fit in,

(00:25:53.082):
or are you going to do what you actually want to do and stop putting it off?

(00:25:57.723):
And if you're not going to do it now, when the hell are you ever going to do it?

(00:26:02.704):
And, and it was just making that decision was empowering.

(00:26:09.406):
And a lot of it,

(00:26:12.737):
It was a process unfolding too.

(00:26:15.119):
You know,

(00:26:15.419):
I ask you these questions as if I don't know the answers to any of them,

(00:26:20.802):
but we've known each other for a long time.

(00:26:22.984):
And really this process for me started,

(00:26:27.807):
you know,

(00:26:28.408):
probably a couple of years after you and I met when we were working together and,

(00:26:32.530):
and it started by me asking myself,

(00:26:35.012):
you know,

(00:26:35.332):
is this really how I want to be spending my time?

(00:26:39.615):
Yeah.

(00:26:40.696):
And I think that we, we,

(00:26:43.874):
Tom,

(00:26:44.214):
I think,

(00:26:44.575):
man,

(00:26:44.795):
we lie to ourselves and tell ourselves that we have a certain amount of time.

(00:26:51.857):
You know what I mean?

(00:26:54.438):
And I'm not trying to be morbid and saying that you don't because I don't know.

(00:27:01.220):
But it's like if you don't know how much money is in your bank account,

(00:27:08.383):
well,

(00:27:08.483):
that's going to affect the way you spend money.

(00:27:10.743):
So if I just blinded you

(00:27:12.864):
to how many funds you had,

(00:27:14.284):
you know,

(00:27:15.045):
you had no idea,

(00:27:16.165):
I would say that you would be more conservative with how you spent because you

(00:27:23.907):
don't know.

(00:27:25.028):
You know what I'm saying?

(00:27:26.068):
Yeah.

(00:27:27.469):
You're going to watch that because you don't want to run out of it.

(00:27:30.569):
And the same thing with time,

(00:27:31.890):
I think that we operate as if we have any clue to what that account looks like and

(00:27:39.792):
what's in it.

(00:27:40.653):
And in fact, we don't.

(00:27:42.979):
Um,

(00:27:43.520):
and so,

(00:27:44.760):
you know,

(00:27:45.121):
it's almost like,

(00:27:46.522):
okay,

(00:27:47.002):
what a couple of different things,

(00:27:49.764):
you know,

(00:27:51.705):
one,

(00:27:51.905):
you know,

(00:27:52.245):
is saying no,

(00:27:53.366):
you know,

(00:27:54.327):
like I started doing that a while back and,

(00:27:57.829):
and I'll,

(00:27:58.429):
you know,

(00:27:58.710):
I don't waste my time.

(00:28:00.150):
I try not to,

(00:28:01.752):
I mean,

(00:28:01.892):
I'm sure I do like on some stupid Netflix stuff or,

(00:28:05.134):
you know,

(00:28:05.434):
a slot machine game on my phone.

(00:28:07.015):
But in general, you know, with my bigger life choices, um,

(00:28:12.242):
I no longer do things because I think that a,

(00:28:18.025):
it's some social construct or things that I got growing up that,

(00:28:23.407):
you know,

(00:28:23.667):
would make my mommy or daddy proud,

(00:28:26.128):
you know,

(00:28:27.188):
some crap like that,

(00:28:28.389):
or,

(00:28:28.889):
you know,

(00:28:29.309):
what you would want me to do or,

(00:28:31.330):
you know,

(00:28:31.750):
anybody for that matter,

(00:28:33.091):
you know?

(00:28:33.611):
Yeah.

(00:28:34.492):
Um, it's, it's just interesting, man.

(00:28:37.053):
You know, um, the way that,

(00:28:40.438):
For whatever reason, we're kind of hardwired to view these types of things.

(00:28:45.280):
Well,

(00:28:45.560):
and those social constructs,

(00:28:47.261):
I talk about that kind of stuff a lot on this podcast because,

(00:28:51.803):
you know,

(00:28:52.043):
we're just groomed to believe that we have to live a certain way.

(00:28:57.626):
You know, you get out of high school, you go to college.

(00:29:02.688):
If you're not married within a couple years after that and there's something wrong with you.

(00:29:07.386):
You know, and you're supposed to have kids in pretty short order.

(00:29:11.108):
And,

(00:29:11.388):
you know,

(00:29:11.689):
you need to have a full-time job that you work during the day and you have benefits.

(00:29:17.292):
And, you know, really, that is just a social construct.

(00:29:24.136):
It's not something that we have to do.

(00:29:27.438):
It's funny, man.

(00:29:28.239):
You know,

(00:29:28.499):
I was kind of like,

(00:29:29.800):
because I was running today,

(00:29:31.340):
I went trail running,

(00:29:32.561):
and I went with a friend of mine,

(00:29:33.762):
and we social distanced for you.

(00:29:36.877):
police out there and but anyways you know I was just kind of inventorying you know

(00:29:45.901):
my circle of influence and nobody answers to anybody you know what I mean it's

(00:29:54.204):
really interesting I mean it's a diverse group of people in a way but you know all

(00:30:00.707):
of them kind of call their own shots and it's not you know a difficult you

(00:30:05.419):
way of life,

(00:30:06.159):
and all of them are very successful in whatever that channel may be,

(00:30:12.201):
and that may wear different on some people than the others,

(00:30:16.063):
but,

(00:30:16.983):
you know,

(00:30:17.263):
I mean,

(00:30:17.523):
like,

(00:30:17.763):
one of my buddies,

(00:30:19.984):
and,

(00:30:20.344):
you know,

(00:30:20.764):
I'm not like this guy at all,

(00:30:22.285):
but in my own way,

(00:30:23.885):
you know,

(00:30:24.225):
I am,

(00:30:24.785):
but,

(00:30:25.526):
you know,

(00:30:25.846):
he,

(00:30:26.126):
like,

(00:30:27.186):
travels around the world and does photography and,

(00:30:29.967):
like,

(00:30:30.267):
swims with sharks and,

(00:30:32.108):
you know,

(00:30:32.952):
He's a black belt and does all kinds of cool stuff.

(00:30:35.554):
And right now he's just got his kids like off the grid, you know, in the Sierra Mountains.

(00:30:40.297):
I mean, you know, it's so diverse of people.

(00:30:44.240):
But the one common denominator is that they aren't concerned with what you think about them.

(00:30:50.625):
I mean, really not.

(00:30:52.947):
Like, I'm not saying like this is a mask.

(00:30:55.829):
I'm saying for real.

(00:30:58.631):
And they're not defined.

(00:31:02.483):
buy much of anything you know they don't allow you know things to define them I

(00:31:08.608):
can't be around that you know to where it's you gotta have you know the suburban

(00:31:14.433):
with the stickers on the back and you gotta go here and do this you gotta be at

(00:31:18.176):
this country club not that I disagree with that lifestyle at all you know because

(00:31:23.240):
there's parts of it that I think are cool and I'd like to do but it just doesn't

(00:31:28.284):
work for me you know um

(00:31:31.209):
to do what everybody else does,

(00:31:33.070):
you know,

(00:31:33.411):
never has,

(00:31:33.891):
that could be some kind of flaw in my character,

(00:31:35.953):
but just how I am.

(00:31:38.715):
Well, I don't think of it that way.

(00:31:42.678):
Not, yeah, not with you anyway.

(00:31:44.479):
I think we're in the same boat there, Tommy.

(00:31:49.223):
No,

(00:31:49.583):
but,

(00:31:49.963):
uh,

(00:31:50.564):
you know,

(00:31:50.904):
we've,

(00:31:51.545):
you and I have been fortunate enough to have,

(00:31:54.907):
to share some mentors over the years and,

(00:31:58.850):
uh,

(00:31:59.070):
and to get to work together and,

(00:32:01.907):
Um,

(00:32:03.928):
it's,

(00:32:04.269):
you know,

(00:32:04.569):
when I think about that and I want to think about the time that we,

(00:32:07.671):
you and I got to share and it just makes me happy to think about it.

(00:32:12.734):
And,

(00:32:13.154):
uh,

(00:32:14.595):
yeah,

(00:32:14.936):
I mean,

(00:32:15.256):
you know,

(00:32:15.676):
it,

(00:32:16.076):
uh,

(00:32:17.217):
what I think about,

(00:32:19.338):
uh,

(00:32:19.579):
with you,

(00:32:20.139):
um,

(00:32:22.661):
when I think about you,

(00:32:23.741):
my go-to is,

(00:32:24.242):
you know,

(00:32:24.782):
um,

(00:32:29.102):
in the middle of my career,

(00:32:30.463):
like a big milestone was getting this job at this facility in Nashville where you

(00:32:35.885):
worked at the time.

(00:32:36.946):
And your career was just in the beginning of really taking off.

(00:32:42.348):
And, uh, and you know, I mean, it's this, to me, it's a big company with like 300 people.

(00:32:47.691):
I don't really know anybody, you know, um, I'm up there training and, um,

(00:32:55.441):
you know,

(00:32:55.961):
like all the people who I did know,

(00:32:58.382):
like all of a sudden one day or like one's out of state here and one's out of state there.

(00:33:04.183):
And then,

(00:33:05.103):
you know,

(00:33:05.363):
all of a sudden I'm in this big cafeteria,

(00:33:07.784):
like a little kid who's the first day at the new school and who the hell am I going

(00:33:14.386):
to sit with?

(00:33:15.346):
And, and you're the guy who made me feel welcome.

(00:33:21.340):
You know,

(00:33:21.940):
you're,

(00:33:22.280):
you're the one guy who was like perceptive enough to see what was happening with me.

(00:33:27.101):
And you went out of your way to make me feel welcome,

(00:33:31.843):
which was a big deal to me at the time,

(00:33:34.183):
you know?

(00:33:35.504):
Yeah.

(00:33:35.864):
I mean,

(00:33:36.104):
I don't understand,

(00:33:37.084):
you know,

(00:33:37.324):
the one thing I'm,

(00:33:38.604):
I'm,

(00:33:38.864):
I'm often like,

(00:33:40.985):
nobody ever does that stuff with me.

(00:33:43.465):
You know what I mean?

(00:33:44.146):
I mean, sometimes people do, but it's almost people are the opposite.

(00:33:49.027):
Generally.

(00:33:50.632):
like they kind of want things to be hard for you.

(00:33:53.314):
I don't know why, but like people just aren't very nice, you know, sometimes.

(00:33:58.478):
And so it's just weird, man.

(00:34:01.620):
But I think,

(00:34:02.380):
you know,

(00:34:02.841):
I try to be to people just because I really know what it feels like,

(00:34:07.023):
like for people not to be,

(00:34:09.565):
you know,

(00:34:09.986):
just to make it kind of hard for you and to not be inviting and welcoming.

(00:34:13.568):
Like, you know, how would you want to be treated in this situation?

(00:34:16.430):
You know, simple little precepts,

(00:34:20.208):
you know, people really look over.

(00:34:24.210):
Well, and, and, uh, again, this is another one of the things that I talk about on this podcast.

(00:34:30.234):
The, the last two words I say at the end of each episode are be nice.

(00:34:36.617):
Right.

(00:34:37.378):
And it's,

(00:34:38.859):
uh,

(00:34:40.580):
just like it's to remind myself and to just put that out there into the world

(00:34:45.562):
because we do have a choice.

(00:34:49.151):
And at some point a number of years ago,

(00:34:52.093):
I just kind of decided that I don't want to live in a world where people don't say

(00:34:58.076):
hello to each other,

(00:34:59.736):
even though they walk right past each other every single day.

(00:35:03.598):
You know, I want to make eye contact with people.

(00:35:08.361):
And I made a decision that I was going to live that way.

(00:35:14.414):
That I was going to say hello to people.

(00:35:16.255):
I was going to acknowledge people.

(00:35:17.795):
I was going to make eye contact with people.

(00:35:20.836):
And, you know, when it felt inviting or whatever, make conversation.

(00:35:25.618):
And just be friendly.

(00:35:29.619):
And it really changes the way you see everything.

(00:35:35.321):
And it enhances the quality of your life so much.

(00:35:43.240):
And you know, that it was more than anything with traveling, you know?

(00:35:47.362):
Yeah.

(00:35:48.403):
Yeah.

(00:35:49.423):
And it's funny cause I was taught not to do that.

(00:35:52.805):
You know,

(00:35:53.125):
I mean,

(00:35:53.625):
you know,

(00:35:53.905):
the kind of messages I got as a little kid was,

(00:35:56.187):
you know,

(00:35:56.467):
it's fucking crazy to do that.

(00:35:57.967):
You don't do that, you know?

(00:36:00.029):
Right.

(00:36:00.949):
Which is, which is really, you know, not who we are.

(00:36:07.632):
I don't think, you know, cause I, I think we are all inherently good and nice people and,

(00:36:13.766):
You know,

(00:36:14.847):
those that inclination to make things hard for people or not roll out the welcome mat.

(00:36:21.431):
You know, that's I don't think that's really us.

(00:36:23.632):
I think that's our bullshit.

(00:36:25.393):
You know, it's a fear, man.

(00:36:27.114):
And I think that you're either opened or closed,

(00:36:31.237):
you know,

(00:36:31.557):
and there's an illusion that if you're closed,

(00:36:38.681):
you're going to cling to what you have so that you won't lose whatever that may be.

(00:36:45.343):
And that if you're open,

(00:36:48.045):
that somebody is going to take it from you,

(00:36:50.027):
you know,

(00:36:50.727):
or take advantage of you or whatever.

(00:36:52.548):
It's like,

(00:36:56.491):
I'm open to arguments,

(00:36:57.772):
but I'm convinced 100% that if you're open,

(00:37:03.276):
you're not only open,

(00:37:04.296):
you're open to everything.

(00:37:05.637):
You know, yeah, you're open to more disappointment.

(00:37:08.099):
You're open to more heartache.

(00:37:09.946):
You're open to more success.

(00:37:12.128):
You're open to more financial success.

(00:37:15.370):
You're open to more financial loss.

(00:37:17.172):
You're open to everything.

(00:37:19.714):
But if you're closed, baby, you're just closed.

(00:37:21.956):
And, you know, you're limited.

(00:37:23.757):
And so I think that,

(00:37:26.319):
you know,

(00:37:26.619):
being open to everything,

(00:37:29.702):
and that starts with just like what you're saying.

(00:37:32.204):
Like, say hi to the person at the gas station.

(00:37:34.706):
You're not that damn important.

(00:37:36.087):
Like, get over yourself, man.

(00:37:38.249):
Like,

(00:37:39.417):
you know, get off the phone and talk to your kids.

(00:37:42.119):
Yeah.

(00:37:42.739):
Dude,

(00:37:44.340):
you know,

(00:37:44.761):
and I,

(00:37:45.021):
you know,

(00:37:45.821):
any given day I can,

(00:37:47.382):
can be either one of those people,

(00:37:48.923):
but I,

(00:37:49.704):
I'm conscious and aware of when I'm being the other guy and I try not to do that.

(00:37:55.148):
Yeah.

(00:37:57.949):
Yeah.

(00:37:58.690):
Well, you know, this is why I love you, dude.

(00:38:02.272):
This is why I wanted to have you on the podcast.

(00:38:05.374):
I mean, and you know, uh,

(00:38:09.562):
it's so important for us to have as guys to have good, healthy men in our world.

(00:38:19.470):
And it's, uh, I mean, until you have it, you just don't know how valuable it is.

(00:38:26.896):
Right?

(00:38:28.097):
Yeah, man.

(00:38:29.658):
I, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't and wouldn't want to live without that.

(00:38:35.642):
But, you know, as a child, I, I,

(00:38:39.560):
It's not that I didn't have it, but I didn't have the kind that you're supposed to, you know.

(00:38:45.305):
Right.

(00:38:46.706):
It happens, you know.

(00:38:47.547):
It's not an excuse or a crutch, you know.

(00:38:50.509):
It's just you're dealt kind of the cards you are.

(00:38:53.471):
But I believe it's also, you know, that's why we, you know, kind of have a life.

(00:38:58.375):
You get to kind of make some of those things right.

(00:39:02.018):
But in recent years,

(00:39:04.180):
I mean,

(00:39:04.400):
I've been surrounded,

(00:39:05.401):
you know,

(00:39:06.502):
by wonderful people and men,

(00:39:08.363):
especially.

(00:39:09.967):
and women but I think for me it was a male thing because of the father piece of it

(00:39:15.749):
but you know just people that you know help me and now I'm at the age to where it's

(00:39:22.431):
my turn and that's so weird dude you know that it's my turn to be that guy and you

(00:39:30.113):
know I try to do it and I am doing it and people are like you know they don't know

(00:39:36.635):
what to think when you know

(00:39:39.392):
you really try to help them get a leg up on life legitimately,

(00:39:43.793):
you know,

(00:39:44.293):
they don't know what to think about that.

(00:39:46.054):
And I only do it because I couldn't have made it through this without it.

(00:39:51.375):
Yeah.

(00:39:52.656):
Yeah.

(00:39:52.996):
Well,

(00:39:53.536):
uh,

(00:39:53.816):
it,

(00:39:54.176):
it,

(00:39:54.696):
uh,

(00:39:56.137):
that,

(00:39:56.637):
that,

(00:39:58.057):
uh,

(00:39:58.357):
flip of the switch to where,

(00:39:59.898):
when you become the one who's giving that energy to,

(00:40:04.502):
to younger guys.

(00:40:05.522):
I mean,

(00:40:05.783):
it kind of happened gradually for me and I don't,

(00:40:08.784):
I don't know if I noticed it as clearly as you're noticing it obviously now or in

(00:40:15.326):
recent years,

(00:40:16.327):
I guess is when you've started to really put it together.

(00:40:19.488):
But,

(00:40:20.869):
um,

(00:40:21.509):
the,

(00:40:21.789):
the beauty of it for me is I get to give what nobody gave me or not enough people

(00:40:31.513):
gave me or whatever,

(00:40:32.914):
you know?

(00:40:34.185):
And,

(00:40:34.626):
um,

(00:40:35.546):
and one of the things that,

(00:40:38.489):
and I mean,

(00:40:39.549):
a lot of guys would think it sounds funny talking about this,

(00:40:42.852):
but you know,

(00:40:44.453):
um,

(00:40:44.814):
it comes up in some of the readings I've,

(00:40:47.516):
I've done on men,

(00:40:49.377):
you know,

(00:40:49.838):
one of the needs that we have as men is to have admiration from older men,

(00:40:57.063):
you know?

(00:40:57.404):
So yeah.

(00:40:59.781):
To be able to like see a guy who's a couple years into this process of change or

(00:41:08.325):
sometimes even just a few months into like changing their lives and to be able to

(00:41:14.568):
look at him and say,

(00:41:16.809):
you're a good man.

(00:41:19.983):
Like you, you are good.

(00:41:22.804):
I mean, and I'm at a point now where I, I, I do that without even thinking about it.

(00:41:33.148):
And it,

(00:41:35.568):
it,

(00:41:35.909):
it hit me a while back because I got feedback from a guy who reminded me how many

(00:41:42.411):
times I said that to him and how much it meant to him,

(00:41:48.053):
you know?

(00:41:49.572):
Um,

(00:41:50.273):
but yeah,

(00:41:50.833):
man,

(00:41:51.154):
we,

(00:41:52.015):
we need that stuff and we need to be,

(00:41:54.577):
we need to be welcomed in to manhood,

(00:41:57.179):
you know,

(00:41:58.601):
and,

(00:41:59.001):
uh,

(00:41:59.221):
and to the,

(00:42:00.402):
you know,

(00:42:00.963):
higher tiers of manhood,

(00:42:02.604):
I guess,

(00:42:03.045):
for lack of a better way to describe it.

(00:42:07.028):
But, um, you know, and we've had, you know, like, like

(00:42:13.126):
I think both of us,

(00:42:14.347):
one of the things you and I have in common is that Frank is someone who gave that

(00:42:20.429):
to both of us.

(00:42:22.590):
You know,

(00:42:22.950):
there was this experience of admiration that we got from him and,

(00:42:27.972):
and I know I needed it.

(00:42:30.973):
Um, and, and, and I just say that, you know, I don't know if you've noticed it or not.

(00:42:37.296):
I just know how much he thinks of you, you know?

(00:42:41.158):
And, uh,

(00:42:42.520):
I mean, he's been a really important person in my life in so many different ways.

(00:42:48.162):
For sure.

(00:42:49.502):
Yeah.

(00:42:51.122):
It's awesome.

(00:42:51.763):
I think that there's,

(00:42:52.903):
you know,

(00:42:53.883):
there's enduring qualities to him and other people like him that,

(00:43:00.145):
you know,

(00:43:00.385):
I learned a while back,

(00:43:01.725):
I had a coach and I had an employee who is underperforming and they were

(00:43:07.407):
consistently underperforming and I was going to have to write him up.

(00:43:12.034):
and I've always paid for my own coaching,

(00:43:14.095):
and it's never the stuff you think you're going to hear.

(00:43:16.075):
It's very interpersonal and deep,

(00:43:18.036):
you know,

(00:43:19.797):
because leadership is about who you are at your core,

(00:43:22.718):
not what your skill set is.

(00:43:25.999):
And so the coach,

(00:43:33.661):
you know,

(00:43:33.961):
he asked me,

(00:43:34.382):
he said,

(00:43:34.682):
okay,

(00:43:35.162):
well,

(00:43:35.562):
yeah,

(00:43:35.902):
you can go ahead and put him on a performance plan,

(00:43:38.043):
but what's his wife's name?

(00:43:40.464):
And I was like, I don't know.

(00:43:42.446):
oh yeah, what is he having trouble with in life right now?

(00:43:46.329):
I don't know.

(00:43:48.210):
And I learned a huge lesson there.

(00:43:51.392):
And he said, how can you expect to motivate someone if you don't know what motivates them?

(00:43:59.117):
You don't know them on a human level.

(00:44:02.740):
And that was a young kind of rookie leadership mistake on my part.

(00:44:06.402):
And one thing I've really learned from guys like Frank, I mean...

(00:44:10.663):
dude, Frank's been there for me in the thick, you know, or then, you know, but, uh, definitely.

(00:44:18.705):
And,

(00:44:18.925):
and still is like,

(00:44:20.645):
there are very few people that,

(00:44:23.546):
you know,

(00:44:24.006):
I think are capable of helping me with,

(00:44:26.727):
you know,

(00:44:27.027):
major decisions.

(00:44:27.987):
He's on that short list, you know, um, and, and has been for a long time.

(00:44:36.309):
Yeah.

(00:44:36.569):
Yeah.

(00:44:37.847):
Yeah, it's amazing.

(00:44:38.988):
We do end up finding the right people if we keep our eyes open, don't we?

(00:44:43.792):
Right.

(00:44:44.672):
Yeah.

(00:44:47.014):
Well, and, you know, this has been great, dude.

(00:44:52.618):
Yeah, thank you so much.

(00:44:55.300):
Is there anything else you want to talk about about what you're doing?

(00:45:01.185):
You know,

(00:45:02.046):
it's just the only other thing that I would,

(00:45:04.568):
you know,

(00:45:04.848):
my latest kind of discovery,

(00:45:06.449):
which is already like a

(00:45:08.979):
inner truth that I knew but it was proven again and it was kind of during this

(00:45:16.724):
COVID-19 thing that kind of immediately like a few people of course rightly so you

(00:45:23.788):
know hit the panic button and then my company lost some revenue or whatever like a

(00:45:29.451):
lot of people did and so you know what I also found was there was tons of

(00:45:36.936):
opportunity like

(00:45:38.948):
just to be helpful.

(00:45:40.589):
And who knows how you're, how that's ever going to monetize itself or not.

(00:45:43.890):
But,

(00:45:44.790):
so that wasn't clear,

(00:45:45.831):
but the,

(00:45:46.631):
the,

(00:45:47.171):
there was,

(00:45:47.931):
what was clear was that Jamie,

(00:45:49.672):
there's a lot of work for you to do.

(00:45:52.073):
What wasn't clear was how are you going to get paid for it?

(00:45:55.234):
And so that I got to say for me, it was a hard thing, you know?

(00:45:59.536):
So I went ahead and did that anyway,

(00:46:02.977):
because I've learned that lesson in another,

(00:46:06.238):
other points in life and through other things.

(00:46:08.179):
And,

(00:46:09.105):
I just, you know, was available and did tons of free stuff and just, you know, whatever.

(00:46:15.828):
It was there to just be helpful.

(00:46:19.810):
And what I found was that,

(00:46:21.571):
you know,

(00:46:21.871):
through that,

(00:46:22.612):
you know,

(00:46:23.112):
some other opportunities presented themselves and whatever,

(00:46:26.053):
and I was fine.

(00:46:27.194):
But, you know, I told my client right when all this stuff hit, I said, you got one option.

(00:46:34.977):
But you got two options, but only one is going to lead you toward success.

(00:46:38.418):
The other one is not going to be something you want,

(00:46:41.119):
but it's the more likely one you're going to take.

(00:46:44.320):
And those two options are, you can think about yourself.

(00:46:48.741):
I said, because this is what we call a defining moment.

(00:46:52.923):
And so your choices are to think about yourself,

(00:46:56.984):
your company,

(00:46:57.664):
and cling to what you have and try not to lose it any way you can.

(00:47:02.806):
And chances are,

(00:47:04.264):
You're going to.

(00:47:05.505):
You're going to prematurely let go of employees.

(00:47:07.707):
You're going to do all kinds of stuff.

(00:47:10.169):
And there are people that have done that.

(00:47:12.630):
And some had to, but I'm not of the school that everybody had to.

(00:47:17.995):
I think that fear drove the bus on a lot of stuff, that it was unnecessary.

(00:47:23.018):
I said, or you have the opportunity, because in a crisis, there's two people.

(00:47:32.366):
There's a victim and a responder.

(00:47:34.869):
that's it or a bystander you know people that just kind of watch but you know in

(00:47:40.811):
the action part of it there's a victim or a responder and you've got an opportunity

(00:47:47.432):
to really rise above and go and spend some time and think about wipe the money off

(00:47:54.934):
the table don't even think about it given what I do as a profession how can I help

(00:48:03.316):
the world right

(00:48:04.514):
Right.

(00:48:05.914):
And only do that thing.

(00:48:07.935):
Only do that thing.

(00:48:09.716):
And I don't want to hear about the money part of it.

(00:48:13.937):
I just want you to do that.

(00:48:15.657):
Right.

(00:48:16.498):
And that's hard, right?

(00:48:20.019):
It's hard to initiate it, but once you do it.

(00:48:23.339):
Right.

(00:48:23.820):
But, you know, some of the greatest companies in the world were not formed.

(00:48:30.049):
on green pastures, they were formed in like the great depression.

(00:48:33.590):
So I don't want to hear it.

(00:48:35.331):
You know what I mean?

(00:48:36.351):
And some of the best people in the world came out of our toughest times is the

(00:48:41.713):
toughest generation,

(00:48:42.793):
you know,

(00:48:43.653):
went through the worst crap.

(00:48:44.713):
I don't want to hear it, you know?

(00:48:46.474):
So do the right thing point blank.

(00:48:51.576):
And that's really hard to do.

(00:48:53.336):
And, you know, it's a lot easier to,

(00:48:57.226):
just worry about yourself and worry about your company and complain all the time

(00:49:01.128):
and be in fear.

(00:49:03.989):
I think that light has really shined itself.

(00:49:09.011):
You see that with small businesses in the world didn't even have a chance because

(00:49:15.374):
the big ones came in and just grabbed that money.

(00:49:17.535):
You see it everywhere.

(00:49:20.416):
It's just like fear response, fear response, fear response.

(00:49:23.558):
Somebody's

(00:49:24.895):
some companies,

(00:49:25.595):
some organizations,

(00:49:26.616):
some leaders will take the other route and take the high road,

(00:49:30.759):
and they'll be recognized and be in history books.

(00:49:33.161):
Well, and I would argue those are the real leaders.

(00:49:36.643):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah.

(00:49:39.625):
I mean, just because you're successful today doesn't mean you're a good leader.

(00:49:44.428):
And I'm here to say that.

(00:49:45.909):
You know, that doesn't mean you're a good leader.

(00:49:47.490):
Just because you got a little money,

(00:49:49.331):
you had some success,

(00:49:50.452):
doesn't mean that you're a good leader that's going to stand the test of time.

(00:49:55.956):
All right.

(00:49:56.316):
One last question that I ask everybody at the end.

(00:49:59.619):
So if,

(00:50:00.900):
if there was a time in your life when the younger Jamie,

(00:50:04.402):
there was something he needed to hear,

(00:50:06.344):
he was going through it.

(00:50:08.125):
When was it?

(00:50:08.986):
And what would you tell him?

(00:50:12.328):
Huh?

(00:50:13.469):
You know, I've actually done this a lot.

(00:50:15.811):
I've done a lot of my own interpersonal work.

(00:50:18.593):
I've done this a lot, but being asked that question today, um,

(00:50:23.809):
You know, it had to be in one of the many times, you know, when I was a little, little boy.

(00:50:30.151):
And I have a son now.

(00:50:31.552):
And so this whole thing has kind of changed for me.

(00:50:33.712):
But I think the worst thing that ever happened,

(00:50:38.774):
one of the worst things,

(00:50:39.654):
not be worse by any stretch,

(00:50:41.355):
but one really damaging thing was that I gave up on something and somebody else

(00:50:49.058):
told me that it was okay.

(00:50:52.122):
You know, and I gave up because I didn't think I could do it or whatever.

(00:50:56.984):
And,

(00:50:58.125):
you know,

(00:50:58.365):
if there was a way to communicate that to myself and just tell myself that,

(00:51:04.288):
man,

(00:51:05.028):
it's not going to be easy,

(00:51:06.369):
but you got this.

(00:51:07.910):
You know, man, I think that would have really changed the course of my life.

(00:51:12.672):
Yeah.

(00:51:15.013):
And, you know, I remember I quit martial arts.

(00:51:17.934):
I was really good at it.

(00:51:19.679):
And just one day, for whatever reason, like, you know, you get ideas as a kid.

(00:51:25.301):
And I think the quitting mind and the quitting attitude in life,

(00:51:29.703):
personally,

(00:51:30.263):
you know,

(00:51:30.544):
it's a personal opinion,

(00:51:32.825):
I think that it's super toxic,

(00:51:34.645):
you know.

(00:51:35.766):
And I remember it was so easy to quit.

(00:51:38.007):
Like, I was just like, I don't want to go.

(00:51:39.407):
And everybody was like, okay, you know.

(00:51:41.588):
Yeah.

(00:51:42.108):
Don't go.

(00:51:42.789):
And nobody tried to say,

(00:51:43.809):
hey,

(00:51:43.969):
man,

(00:51:44.189):
you think,

(00:51:44.750):
you know,

(00:51:45.250):
nobody tried to kind of talk me through that.

(00:51:47.471):
Yeah.

(00:51:48.559):
And so I would go back and I would have a real man-to-man conversation with myself.

(00:51:54.224):
And I said, no, that's not the way we do it, man.

(00:51:56.325):
No, you keep at it.

(00:51:59.207):
And I wish I would have learned that lesson earlier in life.

(00:52:02.510):
Yeah.

(00:52:03.891):
Well, Jamie, this was great, man.

(00:52:05.412):
I appreciate it.

(00:52:07.294):
Thank you so much.

(00:52:09.195):
Thank you, man.

(00:52:09.976):
And have a great rest of your day.

(00:52:11.657):
Be safe out there.

(00:52:13.790):
uh tell jack i said what's up and uh you're a good man you're a good dad thank you

(00:52:18.651):
for having me on your show and anything i can ever do to help you let me know

(00:52:22.412):
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So I appreciate you spending some of it here with me.

(00:54:12.594):
I'm Tom Gentry.

(00:54:14.274):
Thanks for listening.

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Be nice.

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Thank you.

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You did great, honeybee.

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